Is it
not a bitter irony that communal violence is so rampant in
Gandhi's home state today?
THE people of
Gujarat have always lived in peace and communal harmony with
their neighbours; it is the politicians ho unleash this
terror. It may sound repetitive but communal riots are always
engineered by interested groups. The recent flare up is the
direct result of the VHP's provocative temple movement.
Can you
corroborate this fact?
I have been
to Ayodhya several times id the people there are not devotees
of Ram. I do not mean the simple folk who are ought there by
the VHP but the organizers who have nothing to do with Ram or
Hinduism.
What reports have you got
on the situation in Gujarat?
It is common
knowledge now that the dice and administration were simply
active and that they could have easily saved the situation.
The Gordha incident is to be condemned but after that the
administration should have been on high alert to
control the situation.
Would
you say then there was a complicity on the part of the
administration and Narendra Modi's government?
Yes, there
was failure and complicity on the part of the government and
the administration and, unfortunately, we find the police
force equally inactive and communal too.
Is this phenomenon
increasing?
THESE days
one finds more and more incidents where the people and
administration are increasingly communal. There is also the
element of fear too as the atmosphere is so vitiated.
How do you explain the
madness that comes over people during riots?
I HAVE moved
from city to city, town to town, in the last 40 years with the
Shand Sena (peace army) with friends and colleagues and we
have found that no riot is a communal riot but they have
always been engineered by interested groups. Whether it is
Bhagalpur or
Meerut, Moradabad or Surat, Mumbai or Ahmedabad, they have all
been stoked for certain purposes.
And let me
tell you, during riots, neighbours protect neighbours, because
most of the mobs are outsiders and not from the same village
or town. For every five people killed, there are 500 people
who are saved. Both men and women risk their lives to save
their brothers and sisters.
Can
you give any instances?
THERE
are dozens... hr instance, the Shanti Sena has
mobilised friends who have walked on foot from village
to village spreading the message of peace. During the
Bhagalpur riots, Shrinath- a Shanti Sena activist single-handedly saved Muslims from 10 villages.
He asked men and women to come out and take on the
mobs. They fled when they were told they would have to
kill them first before they attacked the Muslims
inside their homes.
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When such
courage is shown you feel proud and enobled. When I
set up the Shanti Sena in Indore between 1961 to
1969, there was not a single life that was lost as our
troops would swing into action. Even senior police
officials would call us up and say bring in your
troops. I'd turn around and ask him, what about
yours?
How effective has the
Shanti Sena been in these violent times?
We are trying
to mobilise people in localities and at the grassroot level.
However, I must admit that after Godhra, our friends should
have' been more alert and active. But they could not move out
in the last 48 hours because they could not get curfew passes.
We need to
bolster our organisation both during times of violence and
peace, at every level, in each locality. Mohalla, street. Our
job is to spread the message. Let me repeat, we are equally
responsible for what has happened in Ahmedabad, we failed and
were inadequate to the job
What
about the role of political parties and disruptive groups like
the VHP and Bajrang Dal?
I am not a
political person, I work with people. But let me say that
every citizen has a duty to their country and all citizens
here have failed abjectly. And so has the media.
How has the media failed?
The media has
played a very negative role by giving coverage to only
violence and destructive elements and has completely ignored
any good work that is being done. Let me illustrate. My friend
Kishwar Nahid the famous poetess from Pakistan, had organised
a huge peace march in Islamabad. It was five kilometres long
but there were only a few lines in the media on it. But the
moment five mullahs with long beards utter some nasty slogans;
the world media descend on them. I wonder whether today's
candlelight vigil will be reported in Delhi's media at all.
How would Gandhifi have
handled the situation if he was alive today?
HIS very
presence would have ensured that such a situation does not
arise at all. Just remember, he sacrificed his life to save
India's tradition of tolerance and equal respect for all. It
is because of him we are a secular nation today.
What about the youth? Are
you able to attract them to Gandhi's ideology?
Youth
everywhere needs something to do; they need a vision, a
programme, a mission. If you place noble thoughts before them,
they will choose it from any other destructive thought. And,
yes, the new generation has taken over from us and they have
proved to be better than us. Have faith in them.
As a Gandhian, what is your
message to the people?
I will quote
Martin Luther King to say: We shall overcome. Truth will
triumph and the force of light will reign. This is not blind
faith but faith based on experience. Gandhi lives and ever
lives.
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